It's hard not to identify as Irish with a name like mine. As a British and Irish passport holder I live happily with my shared identity. I am delighted that my children can do the same, having acquired that right from their mother, who is Irish. Ireland matters to me. A lot.
In that case so too does the the Good Friday Agreement. Few things really bring 'peace in our time'. This agreement did. A lot of deeply flawed people made big compromises to achieve them. I applaud them for doing so. As a result of it nationalists could largely ignore the divide in their island and loyalists had the promise that Northern Ireland would survive as long as most wanted it.
But what made all that possible was the EU single market and customs union. I stress, not one, but both. And now those in favour of Brexit have made clear that they are willing to sacrifice that Agreement for the sake of Brexit. I am truly horrified at the idea. I thought we had suffered enough of The Troubles. Seemingly that is not true.
I could analyse this further, but do not need to do so. Sean Danaher has ably done so at Progressive Pulse. Might I ask you to continue reading there? This really matters not just to Sean, me and millions of others of those who identify as Irish in all the ways that can mean, but to the peace of the UK as well.
Some prices are not worth paying. Losing the Good Friday Agreement is a price not worth paying for Brexit.
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Agree 100% . I grew up in Belfast and remember going to sleep at night listening to gun battles taking place just a few miles away. It took us 30 years to get to the Good Friday Agreement and it’s held up as an example conflict resolution around the world. Its probably the biggest achievement of any government in this country in modern times.
It can’t just be casually cast aside because it doesn’t suit brexit.
I don’t see the problem.
All the UK government needs to do is say “no border controls, no customs duties on the NI side, regardless of origin”.
If Rep Ireland (or more likely, the EU overloads) demand such on the Irish side, that can’t be the fault of the UK.
Yes it can be the fault of the UK government
We have said we will not create a situation where the Irish might be forced to do this
We most recently said so last December
Our breach of that commitment is our fault
And only our fault
If there is no Free Trade Agreement with the EU under WTO most favoured nation rules the UK will be obliged to have a hard border. There is no choice here.
The arrogance of the Brexiteers like yourself who having created the problem and then say it will be the fault of the EU for enforcing a border is beyond belief.
Certainly, that is an option that would satisfy the 52% of the UK voters who voted and will be willing to eat American hormone and antibiotic soaked beef and enjoy seeing the remnants of the British steel industry decimated by cheap dumped Chinese steel. But the other 48% of the voters in the referendum might feel aggrieved at the Minfordesque destruction of British agriculture and manufacturing, and have some sympathy for the Irish being forced by British stupidity to defend themselves and their economy from the mass importation of poor quality and low reculation food, pharmaceuticals and manufatures.
What I have never had explained to me by the advocates of controlling our borders and defending our sovereign fatherland against infiltration by rampaging hoards seeking to live off benefits in our island Arcadia, is, if we have an open border between the six counties and the twenty six, why should not that border act as an open back door for those horrid hard working Poles and Romanians and Bulgarians that steal honest Englishmen’s jobs. I suppose there will be border controls where cattle and dogs can come in and out at will, but not human beings.
Carl Hickbread says:
“I don’t see the problem.
All the UK government needs to do is say “no border controls,…..”
Substitute the border at Dover/Calais and see if that looks like it isn’t a problem.
If It works for N Ireland it should be good enough for Kent.
“I don’t see the problem.” – There is no-one so blind…
“All the UK government needs to do is say “no border controls, no customs duties on the NI side, regardless of origin”.” – Aaaaand THERE is your problem. “The UK Government” doesn’t have the mandate to pass anything meaningful without the support of the DUP, which (to be fair), they have bought and paid for. But the DUP is consistent on one point – it absolutely will not tolerate anything which treats Northern Ireland differently to the rest of the UK… so, if there is to be no hard border in Ireland, there can be no hard border anywhere else in the UK. That means we MUST have a customs union, as a hard border is a WTO requirement without one. BUT… If there’s a hard border on the mainland but not in Ireland, then the DUP will withdraw their support for the UK Government, which means they can’t get anything passed… so we’re back to where we started… Put simply, it’s a diplomatic impossibility.
“If Rep Ireland (or more likely, the EU overloads) demand such on the Irish side, that can’t be the fault of the UK.” – If there was to be a soft border in Ireland and a hard border for the rest of the UK, then everything will go wrong. It can’t work. That problem doesn’t simply go away because you’ve managed to assign blame, correctly or not. In other words, saying “It’s Europe’s fault, not ours” doesn’t change the fact that the whole thing still doesn’t work.
And the Uk government agreed to bind itself not to do things in the GFA as well
This idea that somehow the UK can do what it likes without consequence is quite extraordinary
Thanks. We didn’t give up articles of our constitution to have our country repartitioned.
I’m Irish. Wife is English. Kids have never lived in Ireland but now have Irish passports and are Europeans to their fingertips.
Paul
very similar to my own position. My son has an Irish passport. My wife would love to get an Irish passport but we would have to live in Ireland for a year as there is a 12 month residency rule.
I may have said this before. Pardon me if I have. My friend’s daughter and husband moved to the Republic of Ireland because his company re-located. Their daughters are about to re-new their passports and told my friend that they will probably get Irish passports as ‘we can do more with them.’
I presume using the rights to live, study and work across Europe.
Precisely
Ireland is indeed one of the great stumbling blocks to Brexit. Good. Stay firm, Ireland (Republic) and EU. For the UK: you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone. (I wish I could have an Irish passport but I can’t.)
Richard
Thanks. I am very happy to answer any questions etc. if they are posted in the Progressive Pulse blog.
I find this condescending attitude to the government of the Republic quite troubling. Oddly the condescending attitudes of experts from organisations with acronyms who consistently get things wrong and tell other people what was good for them was a factor in Leave getting a majority.
As the excellent Carl has said “no border controls, no customs duties on the NI side, regardless of origin”.
“If Rep Ireland (or more likely, the EU overloads) demand such on the Irish side, that can’t be the fault of the UK.”
To read the response on here to that , you must thing London academics live in ivory towers and that they think the EU and the government of the Republic are idiots. They’re not. They’re generally sensible people, just need a little persuading, some money helps, and because it is government any deal making will usually takes us to the night before a big deadline. They will do what always happens – negotiate an opt out. And let the technologists from the HMRCs on both sides deal with the rest.
You really do not have a clue about what the GFA wa all about, do you?
The Irish issue isn’t important enough to hold up the aspirations of the majority of the rest of the UK.
The grievances of a small province of 1m people aren’t worth it.
I find your arrogance astomishing
What you fail to appreciate is that outside the EU the UK is alone in the world
And alone in the world it is only as good as its track record in upholding its word
Abandon the GFA and the world will know that the UK is an untrustowrthy partner, always inclined to expediency in its own self interest at best
That will come at a very high price indeed
Your arrogance is more than just flagrant racism and contempt: it’s floss naïveté as well
“The grievances of a small province of 1m people aren’t worth it.”
How about their lives? Are they worth it?
The triangulating on the GFA has been the proof positive for me that Brexit is not just bad politics, it’s morally bankrupt too.
So if some bigger nation with a significantly larger population sent the tanks in here tomorrow, you’d be ok with that, right?
What do you mean ‘alone in the world’.
Do you describe Canada, Australia, US, Japan, NZ, Singapore, South Korea as ‘alone in the world’? It is just silly.
On what basis is it racist? What race is involved?
The tail can’t wag the dog. That’s what 1m Northern Irish would be doing to the rest of the UK by holding us to ransom over this issue.
And we can’t let thugs decide the fate of the whole UK. That’s the implied threat here – give us what we want or the shooting and bombing resumes.
First you gave the number of people in Northern Ireland wrong
Second, don’t you know how offensive it is to not recognise the Irish as a race?
Third, don’t you then appreciate how racist I find your comment?
Fourth, being from Northern Ireland does not make you a thug.
Fifth, don’t you appreciate that it us your attitude that led to oppression, and so violence?
Sixth, you’re banned
The problem with the use of the term racism is that it is too widely applied now. I do not think it is right for white people ( the the Irish are predominantly white) to claim they are victims of racism. Racism generally is discrimation applied by white people usually against any non white group , black people in particular. The issue being white people historically have had the power ( political and social ) to do so based purely on skin colour.
I have to say I think that ignores a great many racist issues
“The tail can’t wag the dog. That’s what 1m Northern Irish would be doing to the rest of the UK by holding us to ransom over this issue.” The idea that this is only a problem to the Northern Irish just proves how little you understand what this is about. The EU have been absolutely clear, emphatic, unambiguous and united on this issue. Frankly, allowing the grievances of a mere 17 million people to override that would be the tail wagging the dog.
Er no. You might want to read some stuff on racism written by those who know what they are talking about. You clearly don’t , stick to tax. You are white and are not a victim of racism and never will be.
I checked that there is literature supporting the use of the term in the way I did before doing so
There is
I am not saying I am the victim of racism
I am saying the Irish clearly have been
You deny that?
Anyone thinking the Northern Ireland issue only affects those in Northern Ireland must have the memory of a goldfish. Not only is it an incredibly selfish point of view it is also foolish.
I grew up in the Midlands and can remember being scared of IRA bombs going off. I remember there being no rubbish bins in the shopping centres and town centres because they were scared of bombs being placed in them.
My old man decided to stay in one night in 1974, rather than going to the pub in Birmingham. It turned out to be a fortunate choice as that was the night 21 people were killed and 182 injured in the Birmingham pub bombings.
First class blog.
My view is that it would be a shocking shame if the peace in Northern Ireland was undermined and just became collateral damage of this stupid BREXIT nonsense.
Honestly – it would be utterly shameful.
Flat to let: No Blacks. No Irish. No Dogs.
I’d say that was a racist sentiment. If Michael wants to call it something else and say it’s the business of only the oppressed to speak for themselves, I think he’s missing some very important lessons of the long history of ignorance and intolerance.
Brexit is seeming more and more an English Nationalist project which risks alienation from Europe and the break-up of the UK as the acceptable price to pay for it.
I struggle to see what imagined benefits can flow from pursuing this course.
1) Racism is not just about hating or discriminating against someone whose skin is a different colour to yours, it is about hating and discriminating against someone, or a group, of a different ethnic background.
Ethnicity is definitely included in the definition of racism nowadays, you cannot ignore it, so you’re just palying games. Distasteful.
2) The UK took the decision to leave the the EU, taking NI out of it too.
Even though they don’t want that border, and they’ve earned their peace.
Don’t blame the EU for spelling out what the rules are for every other non EU country.
When facts don’t fit your illusions, you still won’t make them go away.
Ethnicity, race and origin are all covered by the Race Relations Act
Indeed. Yet there are still some, like Michael, who refuse to accept this because it does not fit into their reductive agenda.
Like yerself, I am Irish. However, I have lived about 50% of my life on what is generally known as continental Europe.
My reaction to the Brexit conundrum is, there are MUCH better opportunities for Irish business outside UK. Yes, we should keep the relationship with NI/UK warm, but dealing with how is a UK problem. If there are to be issues post Brexit it is up to the UK to find solutions. The RoI would be setting up a border, per se, only if the result of the Brexit negotiations creates issues for the EU.
There is a much weeping and gnashing of teeth in RoI about the existing business with UK, lots of low priced food, in particular. Move on, improve the quality and sell to (mostly richer) markets in the other 26 member states.
Barry
That’s as naive as the British (I used the word advisedly) position – which is that everyone else will comply
But it wholly ignores the current facts and the cost of a transition, even if it is possible or desirable
Why are you doing that?