I endured last night's television debate between the major political parties, largely by tweeting about it.
Part way through this was my summary:
Penny Mordaunt was desperate, rude, and way out of her depth.
Angela Rayner shut up whenever Mordaunt spoke over her. It was a bizarre performance from her. She left her wit at home. I was left wondering if she even believed in her party.
Farage was treated with contempt but, like Mordaunt, was given far too much time by BBC chair Mishal Husain, who seemed only vaguely in control most of the time.
Towards the end, I ranked the contributions:
Stephen Flynn was clear and precise and avoided almost all the traps into which he could have fallen.
Carla Denyer did much better than I expected based on her previous television outings. I was impressed and did not expect to be after some fairly lacklustre Question Time performances.
Daisy Cooper did not come over as sincere. Her earnestness was not convincing. Rhun ap Iorwerth for Plaid Cymru was.
Mordaunt will deserve her P45 when she gets it. When she said she was worried about her constituents, my immediate reaction was that I was quite sure that was true since most of them were going to vote against her.
Farage was mocked by the audience and very effectively put down several times by Flynn, who was more than a master of him.
What did we learn? That the small parties have guts, personality and fire based on conviction, and that those parties on the right do not. That was it. But that was important, in itself.
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I didn’t watch it in full, but I thought Stephen Flynn was magnificent – precise and pointed. Flynn managed to zero in on the (taboo) issue of Europe – in that leaving the EU an “unmitigated disaster”, and that net migration is essential – both to the biggest applause from the audience.
(I switched off in part because I couldn’t stand another moment of seeing and hearing Mordaunt any more. If she loses her seat it certainly will be a “were you up for Mordaunt moment”!)
He did migration best
And I am so glad he did. Finally someone said precisely what should be repeated all the time otherwise we’ll just keep spinning in Tory/Labour wheel of Home Secretary handing out visas in the morning (as economy needs it and society can’t function otherwise) and then attacking the same immigrants in the evening (as party demands it).
I agree with the list 100 per cent. Carla Denyer was surprisingly good. I expected Stephen Flynn to do well (as he almost always does), but he was even better than that.
Farage was horrendously bad and it just shows that he is and always has been a media creation and can’t function when off script.
“Mordaunt will deserve her P45 when she gets it. When she said she was worried about her constituents, my immediate reaction was that I was quite sure that was true since most of them were going to vote against her.”
Richard, This is the BEST political line I have heard in years!
Along with informing your commentariat, you manage to keep us entertained with great original quips.
And I thought Stephen Flynn’s quote (that is so soundbite ready) to: “do our national service by voting the Tories out” such a brilliant one!
Unfortunately, it appears that Labour will govern as the Tories have done for the past 14 years – it will be austerity on stilts.
Brexit has destroyed the UK’s economy. There is no hope of economic recovery under a Labour government since Starmer et al. are against re-joining the EU. It was utter madness to leave the trading bloc.
Starmer has no vision, no imagination and no policies or, at least, none that he doesn’t u-turn on shortly after announcing them – so far so Sunak. Labour will do no better than what was already on offer from the Tory government. It’s all very demoralising.
The UK is now a failing state with widespread poverty commonplace. I don’t see that changing under Labour.
Angela Rayner defending nuclear weapons and the two child policy made me despair.
I thought the worst part of a bad evening was after the debate, when the cameras showed Rayner and Mordaunt laughing and joking together. AFter their apparently hostile disagreements, it showed them both up as completely insincere.
The best moment for me was Carla Denyar’s calm ‘well that was dignified’ after one of the Rayner Mordaunt spats.
Flynn definitely won the night.
Much to agree with
Richard,
For the non-UK participants in this blog, could you list each party with the name of the person who represented them at the debate and what office they hold?
Thanks!
Conservative, Penny Mordaunt
Labour, Angela Rayner
Green, Carla Denyer
SNP, Stephen Flynn
LibDem, Daisy Cooper
Plaid Cymri, Rhun ap Iorwerth
Reform, Nigel Farage
THANKS!
I think they should have Jonathan Pie as chair in any further debates
https://youtu.be/IBr2CojKYbg?si=97pA_0IcjVcwlcfg
https://youtu.be/Rp1n7tzFCCE?si=UYCbzDgzovJjOpL8
Both very good
Is a “chair” the same thing as a moderator?
Yes
Is the aim to entertain? or inform? Make people laugh or expose political positions?
I’d favour a well briefed K.C & with each question from the audience – instead of allowing the politicos to burble on – the K.C. could cross examine them based on that question. Forensically tearing their “position” apart, exposing the lies & hypocrisy.
This would be entertaining in a different way – it would expose the politicos as, mostly, hollow, both as people & in terms of their party policies & proposals.
As Pie noted: some hundreds of thousands come to UK on visas (which is fine) – whilst the politicos make a fuss about small boats.
Also such an approach would expose Farage for what he is – a fraud.
However, UK politics is basically entertainment – aimed to get some laughs (ref: PMs questions). It is a sham & the consequences are all around you, the UK, a failing state.
A sobering thought… our local FB and community blogs full of people saying how Farage “spoke for them”.
Worrying….
Hi Richard
I’ve followed you for a while now and (being somewhat economically and politically ignorant) have learnt a great deal. I’ve never posted before but felt I had to respond to this.
It *is* both sobering and worrying that so many people think that ‘Farridge’ speaks for them. I saw a clip of a couple of vox pops in Clacton the other day. Very balanced – a woman thought he was “a snake”, but the man thought F’s views resonated. That’s not what he said, his vocabulary was different. He looked like the stereotypical (what is it Essex? Workington?) Man. And he said all the usual ‘stereotypical’ things – he wasn’t racist, there were too many people coming over and not enough jobs, NHS et all couldn’t cope etc. BUT he wasn’t belligerent, hostile, loud-mouthed. He was upset, worried and fed up that he was being painted as something he’s not. Most of all he kept saying that constantly being called racist was “boring now”.
I won’t go into further detail of the interview, but a few things became apparent:
1 – he really wasn’t racist! (Amongst other things, he said his wife’s from Calcutta…) He didn’t have a “coming over here taking our jobs” attitude, it was more “there are no jobs for them to take”.
2 – he felt (with, I think, some justification) that his views were being talked down by people who either thought they knew what he was like or told him what he should be thinking. Probably those with a ‘posh education’
3 – he obviously feels that F is ‘like him’ and doesn’t know that his dad’s was a stockbroker and he went to a fee paying school.
4 – it was quite a frightening case of successful gaslighting.
5 – he’s not stupid or ignorant (in the pejorative sense it’s often used). He simply doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. And nobody’s helping him to find out.
This man, and many others like him, can’t articulate what they’re worried about. And, because they’re not articulate, they want somebody who is to do it for them. One thing you can say about F is that he won’t be shouted down in the way they feel they are. So of course they think “Yes!”
This is what I despise most about the current so-called Labour party. They’re supposed to represent the people who feel that way, They’re supposed to LISTEN to the people who feel that way and be their voice. And they’re not. Nobody is. They’ve got rid of anybody who would.
That’s what worries me.
The languege and terms on which these depates are conducted – is worht considering – in the light of Radio 4’s weekend reading of Nineteen Eighty Four – (and also Kafka’s Trial)
Our Newspeak is now much more subtle than in the novel
‘National Insurance’ – isnt insurance but the name is meant to convey the impression that it is
‘Action Fraud’ – is a database logging incidents of fraud – ‘the one thing they don’t do – is take action’ – – but we keep the name to impart the noton that someone is taking action
‘During the pandemic’ in the past tense conveys the impression its all over, despite WHO saying its still going on and several thousand have died with Covid in UK in 2024 .
‘The Ultimate Security guaranteed by our Independent Nuclear Deterrent’ – not independent, not secure – (only avoided several accidental launcheses by sheer good luck and one or two people disobeying orders), ‘will you press the button?’ oh yes of course I’d be prepared to destroy the world.
‘Collateral damage’ – bombing, starving, a whole population in Gaza
Whereas :
‘There is money’ (to invest in health and public services) is a Thought Crime which is never to be uttered on BBC or by any leading political party
Firstly these clown shows aren’t ‘debates’, their more ‘Q&NA’. Question and not answer. Debates would require honest statements of intent, civility and effective moderation. All in too short a supply.
Secondly considering that they were asked the specific question of “When did you ever deliver?”, it was staggering to hear nothing on the benefits of Brexit from Farage or Mordaunt. Not a single tangible benefit for those that voted for and definitely none for those that saw flaws in the Leave arguments. This was a golden opportunity for the Brexit champions to crow about the bounty they had delivered. Silence from both.
At the moment the Greens and the SNP remind me of student representatives on a School Board of Governors. Talking sense to their elders and betters, who listen, smile and ignore. Farage is correct when he says that there needs to be reform. I am not sure he has what’s really needed in mind or would care very much for it.
Labour are unelectable in Tory Britain unless they cosplay Tory Light. The Lib Dems haven’t recovered from the Nick, Tim and Jo shows. Geography destines Plaid Cymru to be a minor player until the Union dissolves.
All in all it’s not a great state of affairs but regrettably as I have previously suggested it is unlikely to change before we hit a crisis.
Whereas I agree with “…BBC chair Mishal Husain, who seemed only vaguely in control most of the time”, did you note her interjection toward the end of Stephen’s comments on migration ? – It ran along the lines of ‘so Scots not in favour of immigration should vote for another party ?’
– There is not a single party in Scotland promoting this 1930’s Germany ‘othering’ strategy because Scots are repulsed by it, as Farage discovered to his profound embarrassment on one of his thankfully rare visitations.
However, the audience response to Stephen’s comments conveyed a vastly different outlook to that portrayed as ‘public opinion’ in England by it’s media and main political parties.
Agreed
Good point
An opinion poll of circa 1,000 respondents (‘More In Common’; nope, never heard of them either), reported at length by ‘The Evening Standard’ suggested Farage won the debate. Exasperation is wasted energy; this is the level of insight to reach below the puff and repetitious sound-bites of the voters we are being presented with, by significant numbers of voters (in England at least), in an FPTP system. We are all wasting our time. The entrenched media . and the election system of battle-buses, photo ops and TV debates (mislead, rinse and repeat); has it completely packaged, ‘sown up’, sealed and delivered (the rest of us are trapped in a circular firing squad).
You want crumbs of comfort? The Standard reported: “The poll found viewers thought Mr Flynn, Ms Denyer and Ms Cooper did well in the debate, with Ms Mordaunt the only participant considered to have done more of a bad job than a good one”.
Think about it. Flynn eviscerated the windbag Farage. The respondents see that. They still think Farage won. I suppose it may mean they think both that Farage is a windbag, but still won; because that is how sown-up stitch-ups in FPTP actually work? Who knows.
Beam me up, Scottie.
The Express thinks 64% said Farage won
The audience laughed at him
So much for the media
We can but speculate how Farage’s standing might have been impacted if any of the participants had thought to remind the audience of his declared admiration for the fraudster & felon Trump & ICC indicted Putin.
“The Express thinks 64% said Farage won”
As polled by the Express so take the results with a extra pinch of salt in your already to salty margarita.
Based on several viewings of Lord Farquhar Farage on Spectator TV, I am willing to bet (if a bookie would take the bet) that this 64% voted for BREXIT thinking BREXIT would solve all their gripes and complaints.
Lord Farquhar Farage has been running around from media outlet to media outlet saying BREXIT is not working because BREXIT has not been “managed” correctly. Lord Farquhar Farage does NOT know what he is talking about and Lord Farquhar Farage knows himself that he does not know what he is talking about (or is lying but I will give the benefit of my doubt). However, the 64% of people polled by the Express who think Farage won the debate believe (and really want to believe) Lord Farquhar Farage knows what he is talking about and can make BREXIT work as promised by ______________________ (fill in the blank with name of any random Right-of-the-Wall Wing Tory) to do ___________________________(fill in the blank with any problem a person is personally facing or think they are facing).