It has often been suggested that Labour is having to put on the appearance of supporting Tory-lite policy to secure the votes that it needs to win office.
But is that true? Or is it really the case that Labour now believes in the Tory-lite agenda that many in the Shadow Cabinet appear to be promoting and that this is what they really will deliver when in government? What do you think?
Will Labour move left once it is in office?
- No (68%, 228 Votes)
- I won't take the risk of voting for them in case they don't (16%, 55 Votes)
- Yes (13%, 43 Votes)
- I won't take the risk of voting for them in case they do (2%, 6 Votes)
- I don't care (1%, 5 Votes)
Total Voters: 337
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Living in Somerset I have a viable alternative. Most don’t.
It is important the Conservatives are voted out. There is chance of something better if that happens.
Yes, it is important the Tories are voted out. The problem, as I see it, is that Labour are likely to take a victory, especially a large victory, as an endorsement of their current offering instead of a sign of utter dissatisfaction with the Tories.
My view is that the best outcome would be a hung parliament, but I don’t see any way to campaign for that event. But even then it would not be an end of the matter. If one of the results were not some form of PR then that would be a great opportunity missed and even if the voting system were reformed for future general elections there would still be the problem that all the major parties are thoroughly neo-liberal.
Hear hear, all this Labour bashing from all over the place scares me to be honest. Labour are a long way from where I too would prefer them to be, but for all their faults they will be a whole lot better than another 5 years of Tory doom. The polls may predict a Labour GOVT but we have been here before, get the Tories out is the priority for me.
I would prefer the Tories out
I am a long way from convinced as yet that Labour will be very much better, I am afraid
From where they currently are (or will be come election day) a move right seems highly unlikely. So, they will almost certainly move left once in government.
The real questions are a) from what starting point b) how far left c) how fast.
And the answers don’t look encouraging….. but think about the (Tory) alternative?
I think it true to say that parties move closer to the opponents whilst in opposition and closer to their members/supporters when in power.
I’m reading Danny Dorling’s article in November’s Byline Times (p.10) about the Osbourne/Balls love in on the Internet whilst monitoring Labour’s war on the Left. One seems to relate to the other. Read it if you can and see what you think.
The fact is that I do not like Labour’s leading politicians and nor do I trust them. Again I look at how Miliband and Corbyn were treated and I am deeply suspicious even though I have enough to deal with in the Tory behaviour I see – austerity, prorogations, BREXIT, Covid laissez faire and a mad move to the far right.
But it is also difficult and confusing. What do we want from our politicians I ask? I want authenticity – and I thought that Miliband and Corbyn offered that. But then they get criticised for looking too human, eating a bacon sandwich the wrong way or stuttering a bit at the dispatch box. Not polished enough apparently. I mean – what do we want really? We seem to have an expectations gap about politicians – I don’t think we know what it is we want. Perfection? Presentation? To feel that we are backing a winner?
As I’ve said many a time, Jeremy Corbyn is the only politician in my life whom I’ve heard sung about at a rock concert. People who have gone to see him have said its standing room only and have come back recounting their experience with tears in their eyes and full of (guess what?) – HOPE. Why? Because he was something different, perceived to be more real. After the 2019 election result I had young colleagues crying at work. ‘Never seen that before.
One question that gets asked from time to time is if Jesus (or some sort of saviour) came back to us to save us, would we recognise him in our post Thatcherite world? You know – I don’t think we would. We’d call him a communist and he’d have to stand as an independent as no post Thatcherite political party would have him. To me at least, the best Labour MPs are nowhere near the shadow cabinet.
You could say that the Corbyn phenomenon was even a left leaning populism – but it seems that we are only going to be allowed a right leaning populism instead (Blue Labour & Maurice Glasman’s rhubarb – note, not because of his religion – please calm down there!).
Returning now to expectations, my view is that the nasty Tories have gone as far as they can go – as ever, their greed, stupidity and selfishness means that they break all our toys too quickly and they obviously enjoy themselves too much at our expense.
So then a more moderate version of the same plan has to be found (which is to restore us to some sort of rigid capitalist nirvana state where everyone knows their place – before the world wars that heralded and reified the sleeping power of state interference and social progression). And of course the moderate version – rigid capital with a more kindly face and pace – will be Starmer’s Labour party, whose inauthentic presentation style will be used to keep things ticking over nicely until some excuse can be found (usually a financial crisis of some sort) to revert back to the Establishment’s preferred Tories (only because they tend to speak the King’s English better than those in vulgar neauveau riche Labour of course and only the best families go back in this country for centuries).
Starmer’s Labour and even Blair’s New Labour is to me evidence that we are being gamed by capital, who pollute and pervert our politicians through their party funding and media ownership (that sets out to destroy and undermine more genuine options and strangles them at birth).
You could argue that in this country – certainly in the States – that politics is now just an avatar for capitalist power, and Starmer’s Labour is the worst kind and mean spirited given what we’ve had to endure since 2010. Because he is offering change he says, when all he is really offering is a consolidation period for capital and their long term plan to turn all our needs (everyone of them) into investment returns for the rich that will create a Capitalist Reich.
So, if you want authenticity I say this: Don’t vote at all. Instead, think about leaving and living somewhere else. Honestly!! I think its all sewn up. Don’t you?
I hope this post is sober and serious enough for all its readership BTW. And may I recommend once again and reference Clara Mattei’s ‘The Capital Order: How Economists Invented Austerity and Paved the Way to Fascism’ (2022) as well as Tim Snyder’s ‘The Road to Unfreedom’ (2018) – books that seem to me (amongst others too numerous to mention) to point to some enduring and undemocratic trends no matter how we vote.
It’s all very well to say one should move somewhere else if one wants authenticity, but where? There is no guarantee that other places will not go the way of the UK. Besides that most people will not be able to take your advice.
Yes Bernard I know, but I think this country has not reached its nadir yet – I think worse is to come, this is Klondike UK and for now Europe seems a better option but not a perfect one. But I get where you are coming from.
Larger seems better though in terms of choosing where to go. It makes me suffer to say so but my children would be better of not living in England.
My Yes vote is “Yes I bloody hope so!”
They’re dropping left policies to look mainstream and affordable, not a risk to anyone’s money.
But I’m afraid that power will keep them to the right, and that things not being in the manifesto then doesn’t have default support in the Commons.
The answer is: no Labour won’t move left once in office (I hope I am wrong, as that is the only way things change).
Peter Mandelson – who said when Corbyn was leader, he ‘worked every day’ to undermine and ultimately end Corbyn’s leadership and extinguish Corbynism – is a key player behind the scenes in Starmer’s leadership, along with ultra Labour right Luke Akehurst.
(Plus ‘we must never mention the 2017 election’ – where Corbyn came close to winning – just emphasise the 2019 ‘disaster’. That is the Labour right playbook.)
The Labour right running the party now, are anti Blairites as Blair (despite many faults) had commitments for public spending, constitutional change and (very importantly) was comfortable with ‘young Britain’ the changing social demographics of the country. ‘New Britain – a young country’ as Blair called it, went with the grain of social changes of the country (similar to Wilson in the 1960s).
The old Labour right – who are now in control of the party – are deeply authoritarian – that is the key difference between Blairite ‘New Britain, a young country’. Chasing a vote (elderly male, who haven’t voted Labour in years), and shaping their policies accordingly. Whilst there is very little for those who are under 55.
Starmer’s Labour = authoritarian ‘Old Britain – an old country’.
You have mentioned something I overlooked and that was indeed about the 2017 election Duncan.
Corbyn was close and I think it did put the wind up the Right and soft Right in the Tory and Labour parties. From that point forward, he was doomed I think, they went all in to get him.
This also exacerbated his weaknesses which even annoyed me, but I mean, look what happened to May and Cameron as well. Our politics from 2016 right up to the departure of Johnson was a meat grinder with only offal scraps left to rule us afterwards.
No.
The “leaders” are simply puppets for their paymasters. The paymasters are needed after the removal and loss – both simultaneous and consequential – of the massive membership numbers after the departure of Corbyn.
Pipers and payment.
Jon Cruddas will be the bell-wether to watch, imo. He’s already realised he sat down to sup with the devil but forgot the long spoon.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/27/labour-together-thinktank-keir-starmer-labour-leader
(An interesting article in what it *doesn’t* say about a) the Company House registrations of Labour Together and b) the fact that David Evans was an Assistant Party Secretary to Blair.)
A small hope is that if the Election manifesto is as weak on substance as Starmer’s current platform then the House of Lords will be free to oppose any proposed legislation.
Thinking that labour could reverse course like that requires an assumption that politicians are masterminds, experts at political chess games. But they’re just people, faults and all. I have seen plenty of evidence of flip-flopping from politicians, but none of it comes from game playing. It just seems to come from trying to appeal to voters. If they actually have the votes secured after an election, there isn’t any incentive to flip-flop anymore.
And if they did win, on a particular manifesto, would it even be right for them to suddenly change their policies? They wouldn’t have a mandate at that point.
I’m clinging on by my fingertips to the hope that they will move at least a bit leftwards.
I will vote for them because no other party in my ‘red wall’ constituency has a cat in hell’s chance of removing a tory candidate.
*Nothing* could be worse than the most corrupt and indifferent government I have ever lived under in 70+ years. Getting rid of them is vital.
No. Just like the conservatives, David Cameron and Brexit showed us: political parties feel that they have to enact the policies that they have proposed or they face a loss of trust from their voters.
Unlike you, Bill, I think that most voters don’t care at all about what the government they have voted in actually *do* once they’re in office so long as they, the voter, aren’t adversely affected by it. I believe that only a small percentage of voters stay interested in politics and government action in between general elections…
I think we’re in an almost unique situation at the moment because the torys have managed to upset just about *every* section of our society. I don’t recall it ever having been this bad before.
I may, of course, be quite wrong…
I certainly meet people like that – but relatively rarely.
But that may be my circle.
They will move leftwards, but not to the left.